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Author Topic: Whats the deal with moderation?  (Read 137 times)
unabomber
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April 16, 2018, 10:39:01 PM
 #1

I made a thread earlier about where to purchase a VCC with Bitcoin. Apparently it's harder to buy them since January because of rule changes by the big credit card companies so I thought I'd ask what other people were using and got some good answers. Some dude replied to my thread with what I assume was a copy and pasted post, so I reported it to the mods. The rest of the posts on the thread were fairly useful and none were spam. Now when I check my entire thread is gone, I received no message about my thread being deleted at all or even why it was deleted. I assume it was deleted by the mods for some reason.

From what I've seen it seems like the staff here are discouraging and shutting down actual discussions on the forum and letting spammers run wild. Basically if you aren't being paid to post then get off the forum. This forum is an absolute joke, the only readable section is meta where you can read about how shit the forum is.

I know it's been said a thousand times, but the admins really need to sit down and decide whether bitcointalk is a discussion forum or a glorified Bitcoin faucet. Currently the forum is a form of one of those paid-to-click websites that are covered in spammy ads and pay you a few cent an hour to look at them, it is essentially the Bitcoin version of buxinc.

I will now have to go onto Reddit and post my thread there in order to actually have any discussion on the topic. Hopefully I don't accidentally type any bad keywords though because apparently typing a specific word on the subreddit makes your post invisible to people.
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April 16, 2018, 10:42:09 PM
 #2

I made a thread earlier about where to purchase a VCC with Bitcoin. Apparently it's harder to buy them since January because of rule changes by the big credit card companies so I thought I'd ask what other people were using and got some good answers. Some dude replied to my thread with what I assume was a copy and pasted post, so I reported it to the mods. The rest of the posts on the thread were fairly useful and none were spam. Now when I check my entire thread is gone, I received no message about my thread being deleted at all or even why it was deleted. I assume it was deleted by the mods for some reason.

From what I've seen it seems like the staff here are actually discouraging actual discussions on the forum and letting spammers run wild. This forum is an absolute joke, the only readable section is meta where you can read about how shit the forum is.

I know it's been said a thousand times, but the admins really need to sit down and decide whether bitcointalk is a discussion forum or a glorified Bitcoin faucet. Currently the forum is a form of one of those paid-to-click websites that are covered in spammy ads and pay you a few cent an hour to look at them, it is essentially the Bitcoin version of buxinc.

I will now have to go onto Reddit and post my thread there in order to actually have any discussion on the topic. Hopefully I don't accidentally type any bad keywords though because apparently typing a specific word on the subreddit makes your post invisible to people.

Perhaps it was a moderation error? These guys get hundreds of reports, they obviously can't get them all perfect. I would just repost the thread and move on. Cheers.

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April 16, 2018, 11:00:35 PM
 #3

As @quickseller has explained to me early, there are a group of moderators that is call patroling.This group is made up of people who are new to moderation and are responsible for taking care of posts initiated by new accounts. In the will to demonstrate a good service, it is very probable that they act with more speed and delete a topic without thinking much about it. Or discuss about it. Even more if on the topic you have many discussions that look like spam with many newbie accounts and if you are in the wrong section.

I believe that only an adm could moves topics between sections. So to avoid given too much job to cyrus, they choose to delete.

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April 16, 2018, 11:05:52 PM
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From what I've seen it seems like the staff here are discouraging and shutting down actual discussions on the forum and letting spammers run wild.

You jump to wrong conclusions quickly.  :/

There is nothing in the modlog on your account for deleted replies, so the entire thread was probably nuked.

It had nothing to do with you - it was probably just easier for the person to handle multiple reports in that thread at once.

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hilariousandco
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April 17, 2018, 10:01:44 AM
 #5

The post you reported was deleted but it seems the thread was also trashed for whatever reason.

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April 17, 2018, 10:20:24 AM
 #6

The post you reported was deleted but it seems the thread was also trashed for whatever reason.

Ok. So the mods removed my posts without notifying me at all or giving any explanation.

When I post something on bitcointalk, do I still retain ownership of that, or does bitcointalk retain ownership in it? Are my posts still my property? if so, why did you not notify me when you removed them? These are some important questions admins will need to answer with GDPR upcoming, which will affect the forum even though it is US based.
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April 17, 2018, 10:31:26 AM
 #7

Ok. So the mods removed my posts without notifying me at all or giving any explanation.

You get a notification when your posts are deleted but not when a thread is trashed.

When I post something on bitcointalk, do I still retain ownership of that, or does bitcointalk retain ownership in it? Are my posts still my property? if so, why did you not notify me when you removed them?

When you post something on someone else's website then you give it to them. You never had ownership.

These are some important questions admins will need to answer with GDPR upcoming, which will affect the forum even though it is US based.

GDPR is about personal data not what you post online.

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April 17, 2018, 10:34:33 AM
 #8

The post you reported was deleted but it seems the thread was also trashed for whatever reason.

Ok. So the mods removed my posts without notifying me at all or giving any explanation.

When I post something on bitcointalk, do I still retain ownership of that, or does bitcointalk retain ownership in it? Are my posts still my property? if so, why did you not notify me when you removed them? These are some important questions admins will need to answer with GDPR upcoming, which will affect the forum even though it is US based.

You only get a notification for posts that are deleted. You're making a post on a private forum that is owned by someone else and they can probably do as they see fit. If you don't like that or the way the forum is run then you are free to leave. As far as I'm aware the General Data Protection Regulation is only applicable in the EU and I'm not sure how they'll try to enforce that in the United States.

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April 17, 2018, 10:34:48 AM
 #9

When you post something on someone else's website then you give it to them. You never had ownership.

This is not true. You may retain ownership of your content. This means that you could remove it at any time etc. If the service retains ownership, then they could redistribute your content without your permission. Example are Reddit vs Facebook, whereby facebook retains the right to redistribute your content no matter what and Reddit always allows you to delete your content.

GDPR is about personal data not what you post online.

Posts are still personal data. For example GDPR allows you to request all your data and data they hold about you from a website owner. This includes your posts.
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April 17, 2018, 10:38:58 AM
 #10

As far as I'm aware the General Data Protection Regulation is only applicable in the EU and I'm not sure how they'll try to enforce that in the United States.

It applies to anyone holding data on EU citizens. You will be fined by the US government for violating it.

https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2007530-how-the-eu-can-fine-us-companies-for-violating-gdpr

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"For U.S. companies that have a physical presence (establishment) in the EU, which increasingly they do, the GDPR can be enforced directly against them by EU member state authorities," Priebe says. "EU authorities have been aggressively pursuing data protection enforcement actions against U.S. companies with locations in the EU for a number of years."

But things get a little murkier for U.S. companies without a physical presence in the EU. According to Priebe, GDPR addresses this issue "by requiring companies without an establishment in the EU ... to designate a 'representative' located in the EU."

This won't apply to every U.S. business — just the ones that are knowingly, and actively, conducting business in the EU. In this vein, EU courts have the discretionary ability to determine if a U.S. company was purposely collecting EU resident data and subverting GDPR compliance. So, in some cases, the inadvertent collection of personal data will be forgiven if it is found to have been occasional and "unlikely to result in a risk to the rights and freedoms of natural persons."

But this all relies on the EU member state's judgment. Some EU countries such as Germany take a harder approach to data privacy, and may not be as lenient.
Last but not least: EU regulators rely on international law to issue fines. Written into GDPR itself is a clause, Priebe says, stating that any action against a company from outside the EU must be issued in accordance with international law.

As it happens, the EU and the U.S. have a pretty good relationship.

"There has [...] been long term and increasing enforcement cooperation between U.S. and EU data protection authorities," Priebe says,
pointing to the negotiations over the EU-U.S. Privacy Shield data sharing agreement, which puts systems in place for the EU to issue complaints and fines against U.S. companies.

She continues: "While we don’t yet have U.S.-EU negotiated civil enforcement mechanisms for the GDPR (and it is unknown whether we ever will), there is still the application of international law and potential cooperation agreements between U.S. and EU law enforcement agencies, which have been increasing in recent years."

The bottom line: EU regulators can fine U.S. companies for violating
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April 17, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
 #11

This is not true. You may retain ownership of your content. This means that you could remove it at any time etc. If the service retains ownership, then they could redistribute your content without your permission. Example are Reddit vs Facebook, whereby facebook retains the right to redistribute your content no matter what and Reddit always allows you to delete your content.

Just because Reddit allows you to do it doesn't mean they are obliged to. You do give ownership to the website owner and if they allow you anything it is by their choice.


GDPR is about personal data not what you post online.

Posts are still personal data. For example GDPR allows you to request all your data and data they hold about you from a website owner. This includes your posts.

That's a strange interpretation and I look forward to the EU getting embarrassed when it proves unenforceable.



Quote
"For U.S. companies that have a physical presence (establishment) in the EU,

So not the forum.



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April 17, 2018, 10:44:22 AM
 #12

So not the forum.

Please stop trying to pad your post count and read the entire thing. Especially the bolded part.

Anyways: assuming that the law is unenforceable against US companies (it isn't) is it the forums official policy to violate the data protection laws of the EU?
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April 17, 2018, 10:48:58 AM
 #13

So not the forum.

Please read the entire thing. Especially the bolded part.

It doesn't contradict the first line. It still refers to US companies with a physical presence in the EU.



You should also have a think about what the implications of what you think it means are. If anyone that posts on someone else's website retained ownership then the site owner couldn't delete it then it would be a spammers charter. It's obvious that applying a little common sense says you have misunderstood it.

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April 17, 2018, 10:52:56 AM
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It doesn't contradict the first line. It still refers to US companies with a physical presence in the EU.

Read this website:
https://www.privacyshield.gov/welcome

This is an information website setup by the US government about the EU-US privacy shield agreement. The US government will issue fines to us companies located in the US with no presence in the EU if they violate data protection laws of EU citizens and vice versa. It is part of an agreement known as the EU-US privacy shield.

You should also have a think about what the implications of what you think it means are. If anyone that posts on someone else's website retained ownership then the site owner couldn't delete it then it would be a spammers charter. It's obvious that applying a little common sense says you have misunderstood it.

Sorry dude but your just went full retard right here. OF course the website owner can delete things, they aren't required to perpetually host things. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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April 17, 2018, 10:55:22 AM
 #15

Sorry dude but your just went full retard right here.

No, that was definitely you.

When I post something on bitcointalk, do I still retain ownership of that, or does bitcointalk retain ownership in it? Are my posts still my property? if so, why did you not notify me when you removed them? These are some important questions admins will need to answer with GDPR upcoming, which will affect the forum even though it is US based.

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April 17, 2018, 04:46:17 PM
 #16

So not the forum.

Please stop trying to pad your post count and read the entire thing. Especially the bolded part.

Anyways: assuming that the law is unenforceable against US companies (it isn't) is it the forums official policy to violate the data protection laws of the EU?

Theymos' policy is usually only to remove things or comply if forced or compelled to by law ie if a law enforcement agency merely asks for some info he probably won't give it to them unless there's a warrant or subpoena and this will probably be the same. If this is in fact enforceable by US law then I'm sure he will comply unless he decides to fight it. If you check theymos' posts he has previously commented on a similar question about what he would do about EU privacy laws and I think he stated they would be disregarded and referred to them as EUSSR or something  Cheesy.

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April 17, 2018, 05:05:27 PM
 #17

When I post something on bitcointalk, do I still retain ownership of that, or does bitcointalk retain ownership in it? Are my posts still my property? if so, why did you not notify me when you removed them? These are some important questions admins will need to answer with GDPR upcoming, which will affect the forum even though it is US based.

A forum post is not a physical entity, and there are numerous copies made whenever a member opens a thread. Surfers have the right to delete your post from their computer. I'm sure the forum has a similar right. In fact, isn't there some stuff in the forum registration agreement which says that the adminshave a right to change or delete posts if they want to?

If I buy a book, do I have to get the authors permission to burn it? Isn't this much the same argument?

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April 17, 2018, 06:49:26 PM
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Just ask them and they would look it up to see if it was deleted by mistake. they could restore it. please don't sue this forum. I can even make it up to you by sending alia for a night over to your place.
This is not personal information of forum members, this is about the post content.
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